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Annie
Administrator



United Kingdom

1040 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2007 :  09:16:35  Show Profile  Visit Annie's Homepage Send Annie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just reply with what you are thinking after reading the information on the SAD page.

Annie x - Poetry is always in motion

taffy
Member



Oswestry Shropshire.
United Kingdom


2073 Posts

Posted - 18/03/2007 :  17:07:35  Show Profile  Visit taffy's Homepage Send taffy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello All, Annie this has been a subject which has worried me for many years, and finally surfaced after reading John's varied accounts of the WW1 incidents. Trauma happens in many guises,and in many highly trained soldiers. My first encounter with the problem was when i was confronted with first hand knowledge, a soldier one of the best in the company,stood in front of me literally shaking from head to foot,begging me to help him, offering to do anything rather than be ordered to return to his slit trench and carry on.This was a soldier who had conducted himself courageously in previous encounters, and one of the first to be picked for special tasks,like night patrols. This was a subject with which we were completely untraimed, and i have never felt so lost in making decisions. I am sure that many of the Soldiers shot at dawn in WW1, were experiencing this type of distress.
I sent this soldier back to the first aid post with a stretcher bearer as escort.Did i make the right decision? I do hope i did.
Taffy.
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Annie
Administrator



United Kingdom

1040 Posts

Posted - 19/03/2007 :  21:06:57  Show Profile  Visit Annie's Homepage Send Annie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You did do the right thing, and if SAD is anything to go by you made just the right decision at the right time. You rightly pointed out that you, and practically all others, were untrained in that sort of thing, that is precisely why you acted on your instinct and correctly too.

In all honesty, as fine a chap that he was would he have been effective in that state? I would rest easy Taffy in the knowledge that what you did was correct, admirable and compassionate. Perhaps if others before you had such courage in their own beliefs at least some of those who were Shot at Dawn would not have been.

Annie x - Poetry is always in motion
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taffy
Member



Oswestry Shropshire.
United Kingdom


2073 Posts

Posted - 28/03/2007 :  18:43:23  Show Profile  Visit taffy's Homepage Send taffy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello All, Now that this problem has been partly solved, i find myself wondering how much of the underlying cause has been tackled, it appears that trauma exists as big a problem as ever, sure soldiers no longer get shot, but it still exists, and many are now just cast adrift without proper help, waiting months for treatment, and then recieving inadequate help. I would like to hear more about this subject, and possible ways of getting it solved or at least easing the pressure. Taffy. arlewis @ proprose. co.uk.
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Annie
Administrator



United Kingdom

1040 Posts

Posted - 28/03/2007 :  21:11:32  Show Profile  Visit Annie's Homepage Send Annie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I believe you are right Taffy. The problem has not gone away. It is now recognised but I wonder just how much MoD do and how many people fall by the side.

Annie x - Poetry is always in motion
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Mac
Administrator



United Kingdom

1631 Posts

Posted - 29/09/2007 :  12:38:43  Show Profile  Visit Mac's Homepage Send Mac a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have been giving this topic some thought as I am sure we all do from time to time and two things have occurred to me.

1. Forces Poetry is in itself a form of treatment for all those who have been affected by war and perhaps more so for those suffering mental trauma from their experiences. Annie recently received an email from a lady saying that FP gave her great comfort as she herself lost her son.

2. A darker thought is I that I got wonder about those who sat as in the Court Marshal (whose authority is more than questionable) and how they would react to the modern belief that what they did was wrong. It would be interesting to discover their thinking, why they took the path they did, where this thinking came from or was driven from.

I would like to think they would all be convinced of their wrong doing but another side of me wonders if they all would.

Taffy very kindly sent me a whole box full of paperwork from the single handed crusade of Mr John Hipkin (you can read a little about John at this link) http://www.forcespoetry.co.uk/shotatdawn.asp.
I will one day manage to get some of this prepared for the Internet page we have dedicated to this topic but presently I can only scan the documents in as images and this becomes a very heavy strain on our precious web space.

If anyone knows of a place which specialises in this sort of work (transferring documents into electronic documents for web pages) please let me know and as soon as we get funding I'll sort it out.

Dream, Hope, Believe, Do
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Chris Green
Member



Newark-upon-Trent
United Kingdom


2301 Posts

Posted - 29/09/2007 :  14:58:39  Show Profile  Visit Chris Green's Homepage Send Chris Green a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You should be able to scan it in as TEXT Mac. Loads of text scanning progs out there and usually come bundled with the scanner.

Regards,
Chris Green
frankgreen2@virginmedia.com
http://chrisgreen.weebly.com/

Service before self

'A Poppy in My Buttonhole' available now SEE:
http://www.rossendalebooks.co.uk/
http://www.lulu.com/content/2791550

My next book will be "The Crcodile Chronicles" and is projected to be launched 2015 or a quarter past eight in time for Christmas.
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Chris Green
Member



Newark-upon-Trent
United Kingdom


2301 Posts

Posted - 29/09/2007 :  15:04:01  Show Profile  Visit Chris Green's Homepage Send Chris Green a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Current military thinking is that a soldier must not serve more than 140 continuous days in the field of operations and must then be removed from the area for a minimum of 6 months.

Even then there will be a 6% wastage of personnel who will be unable to return to combat.

The main destroyer of minds is the effects of artillery barrages on those on the receiving end with 87.88% of casualties of all desgnations; including physical injuries, mutilation, death and blown to bits; resulting from this.

Regards,
Chris Green
frankgreen2@virginmedia.com
http://chrisgreen.weebly.com/

Service before self

'A Poppy in My Buttonhole' available now SEE:
http://www.rossendalebooks.co.uk/
http://www.lulu.com/content/2791550

My next book will be "The Crcodile Chronicles" and is projected to be launched 2015 or a quarter past eight in time for Christmas.
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taffy
Member



Oswestry Shropshire.
United Kingdom


2073 Posts

Posted - 29/09/2007 :  18:51:56  Show Profile  Visit taffy's Homepage Send taffy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello,Once again you have got straight to the point Chris, This is what caused so many of the problems in WW1, Soldiers in trenches often up to their knees in mud with almost continious shelling both ways simply lost their minds and deserted, or were so traumatised they just could not move, this of course meant court marshal proceedings. During the break out from Normandy bridgehead we experienced almost 24 hours continous shelling all fired overhead from our own batteries which left many soldiers deafoned and dazed, what WW1 soldiers endured day after day, no wonder some could not stand the pressure. Regarding Courts Marshall. i have never had much faith in their findings, especially as i once heard a W.O.1 saying how he had forgotten his bible, and swore every one in on an upturned ready reckoner, it being about the same size. I do have knowledge of court proceedings, having been responsible for seeing that proceedings were correctly followed on a couple occasions. Taffy
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Tom Mcgreevy
Administrator



Ex-English Army ( Ex-pat Geordie ), Berkshire
United Kingdom


4098 Posts

Posted - 16/01/2008 :  19:16:14  Show Profile  Visit Tom Mcgreevy's Homepage Send Tom Mcgreevy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
After I wrote this, ' Taffy ' suggested I should post this on the SAD site.
So here it is, a terrible reminder of a time in our history, that should never be forgotten.

SHOT AT DAWN BY DEFAULT

WW1


Iím standing here alone

My back against the wall

My body is a trembling

Iím slumped, but once stood tall


My blindfold wet and cold

Sticking to my tears

I search my mind for future life

Beyond my 18 years


My knees transformed to putty

Canít support my weight

My hands tied by my Country

Which once I thought was great


They said I was a coward

They never asked me why

Court Marshalled here in secret

I know Iím going to die


I canít see what is happening

My blindfold bound so tight

The silence now is killing me

As Dawn appears from night


Get it over, get it done

Why do they make me wait ?

I really need to urinate

Canít they see my state ?


A clicking from the Rifle Bolts

A stream runs down my leg

I only have but seconds left

ď Donít kill me ď now I beg


The fear it makes me Vomit

The birds they start to trill

Then suddenly go quiet

The eerie Dawn stands still


The birds they sense a Death is near

Life ends right here for me

A Ď Crack ! Ď from all those rifles

In perfect harmony


Send a message to my loved ones

Donít listen, what they said

I was young and frightened

I shouldnít lie here dead


The young and the Brave of World War 1

Tom Mcgreevy

http://im-a-soldier-get-me-out-of-here.weebly.com



Edited by - Tom Mcgreevy on 22/01/2008 10:18:03
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taffy
Member



Oswestry Shropshire.
United Kingdom


2073 Posts

Posted - 17/01/2008 :  12:10:11  Show Profile  Visit taffy's Homepage Send taffy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Tom, This part of our history still causes me concern, as does present day trauma difficulties, and of course, Friendly fire situations. taffy
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Tom Mcgreevy
Administrator



Ex-English Army ( Ex-pat Geordie ), Berkshire
United Kingdom


4098 Posts

Posted - 17/01/2008 :  13:28:53  Show Profile  Visit Tom Mcgreevy's Homepage Send Tom Mcgreevy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No Problem Taffy. If John Hinkin wants to use this for anything he has my full permission, as can anyone else who reads this
Regards
Tom Mcgreevy

http://im-a-soldier-get-me-out-of-here.weebly.com


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Lisa
Member



United Kingdom

155 Posts

Posted - 17/01/2008 :  20:50:35  Show Profile Send Lisa a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I really don't know much about SAD but when I here or read about SAD I often think that if the army had a better understanding of mental health care then all those lives would have been saved. Then I realise that not much could have changed, no one is getting SAD anymore but the soldiers of today still seem to lack good mental health care/understanding and their voices aren't being heard. I know of many suicides and people going crazy not always through experience from combat situations but usually the stresses of army/family life. I knew of a guy who had begged for help which got brushed under the carpet as maybe his superiors didn't recognise his desperation, he took his own life. I here of stories like this all the time in the media, it shouldn't come to this, I feel the forces in particular should have specialists mental health teams, and more importantly higher ranks should be trained and educated more in mental health care and then maybe lives can be saved and more soldiers can be helped.

~Lisa~
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janhedger
Administrator



United Kingdom

4229 Posts

Posted - 17/01/2008 :  22:45:10  Show Profile  Visit janhedger's Homepage  Send janhedger an AOL message Send janhedger a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes it is time to stand up and say - Mental Health isuues are REAL!
Jan

We cannot stop, because if a single one of these men were taken and shot, that would be our fault - Edith Cavell
http://www.janscreativewriting.co.uk/ -updated Aug 17 - with new poems/photo's - video interviews - see PowerPoint slide shows, audio files & my books.
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Tom Mcgreevy
Administrator



Ex-English Army ( Ex-pat Geordie ), Berkshire
United Kingdom


4098 Posts

Posted - 22/01/2008 :  10:14:27  Show Profile  Visit Tom Mcgreevy's Homepage Send Tom Mcgreevy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
TOO YOUNG

Please Sir, donít make me do this

Heís my mate, heís only young Sir

He broke the rules lad

And sentence is passed

Now come on soldier

Move along there

But, me legs wonít move Sir

Iím shaking, look

What are you soldier

Man or mouse?

Iím neither man nor mouse Sir

I am just a boy, a boy

Just like my brother Sir

Then aim true lad

And spare him pain

Soldier, cock that rifle

Or youíll find yourself

Against that wall

But, but Sir I canít see

Iím blinded Sir

Enough now soldier

Pull that trigger

And that my boy

IS AN ORDER!



CRACK!



I am sorry, so sorry mate!

Was the last cry he uttered

As he fell by the hand,

Of his own gun

Never to be a man


Jan Hedger

FootNote: please see comments Re; Shot at Dawn by Default Ė Tom McGreevy


Poem Background info: Words in tribute to those Shot at Dawn


http://im-a-soldier-get-me-out-of-here.weebly.com



Edited by - Tom Mcgreevy on 22/01/2008 10:19:29
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