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Annie
Administrator
United Kingdom
1040 Posts |
 Posted - 12/03/2007 : 09:16:35
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Just reply with what you are thinking after reading the information on the SAD page.
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Annie x - Poetry is always in motion |
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taffy
Member
Oswestry Shropshire.
United Kingdom
1686 Posts |
Posted - 18/03/2007 : 17:07:35
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Hello All, Annie this has been a subject which has worried me for many years, and finally surfaced after reading John's varied accounts of the WW1 incidents. Trauma happens in many guises,and in many highly trained soldiers. My first encounter with the problem was when i was confronted with first hand knowledge, a soldier one of the best in the company,stood in front of me literally shaking from head to foot,begging me to help him, offering to do anything rather than be ordered to return to his slit trench and carry on.This was a soldier who had conducted himself courageously in previous encounters, and one of the first to be picked for special tasks,like night patrols. This was a subject with which we were completely untraimed, and i have never felt so lost in making decisions. I am sure that many of the Soldiers shot at dawn in WW1, were experiencing this type of distress.
I sent this soldier back to the first aid post with a stretcher bearer as escort.Did i make the right decision? I do hope i did.
Taffy. |
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Annie
Administrator
United Kingdom
1040 Posts |
Posted - 19/03/2007 : 21:06:57
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You did do the right thing, and if SAD is anything to go by you made just the right decision at the right time. You rightly pointed out that you, and practically all others, were untrained in that sort of thing, that is precisely why you acted on your instinct and correctly too.
In all honesty, as fine a chap that he was would he have been effective in that state? I would rest easy Taffy in the knowledge that what you did was correct, admirable and compassionate. Perhaps if others before you had such courage in their own beliefs at least some of those who were Shot at Dawn would not have been. |
Annie x - Poetry is always in motion |
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taffy
Member
Oswestry Shropshire.
United Kingdom
1686 Posts |
Posted - 28/03/2007 : 18:43:23
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| Hello All, Now that this problem has been partly solved, i find myself wondering how much of the underlying cause has been tackled, it appears that trauma exists as big a problem as ever, sure soldiers no longer get shot, but it still exists, and many are now just cast adrift without proper help, waiting months for treatment, and then recieving inadequate help. I would like to hear more about this subject, and possible ways of getting it solved or at least easing the pressure. Taffy. arlewis @ proprose. co.uk. |
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Annie
Administrator
United Kingdom
1040 Posts |
Posted - 28/03/2007 : 21:11:32
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| I believe you are right Taffy. The problem has not gone away. It is now recognised but I wonder just how much MoD do and how many people fall by the side. |
Annie x - Poetry is always in motion |
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Mac
Administrator
United Kingdom
1295 Posts |
Posted - 29/09/2007 : 12:38:43
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I have been giving this topic some thought as I am sure we all do from time to time and two things have occurred to me.
1. Forces Poetry is in itself a form of treatment for all those who have been affected by war and perhaps more so for those suffering mental trauma from their experiences. Annie recently received an email from a lady saying that FP gave her great comfort as she herself lost her son.
2. A darker thought is I that I got wonder about those who sat as in the Court Marshal (whose authority is more than questionable) and how they would react to the modern belief that what they did was wrong. It would be interesting to discover their thinking, why they took the path they did, where this thinking came from or was driven from.
I would like to think they would all be convinced of their wrong doing but another side of me wonders if they all would.
Taffy very kindly sent me a whole box full of paperwork from the single handed crusade of Mr John Hipkin (you can read a little about John at this link) http://www.forcespoetry.co.uk/shotatdawn.asp.
I will one day manage to get some of this prepared for the Internet page we have dedicated to this topic but presently I can only scan the documents in as images and this becomes a very heavy strain on our precious web space.
If anyone knows of a place which specialises in this sort of work (transferring documents into electronic documents for web pages) please let me know and as soon as we get funding I'll sort it out. |
Never stop dreaming... |
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Chris Green
Member
Newark-upon-Trent
United Kingdom
1910 Posts |
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Chris Green
Member
Newark-upon-Trent
United Kingdom
1910 Posts |
Posted - 29/09/2007 : 15:04:01
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Current military thinking is that a soldier must not serve more than 140 continuous days in the field of operations and must then be removed from the area for a minimum of 6 months.
Even then there will be a 6% wastage of personnel who will be unable to return to combat.
The main destroyer of minds is the effects of artillery barrages on those on the receiving end with 87.88% of casualties of all desgnations; including physical injuries, mutilation, death and blown to bits; resulting from this. |
Regards,
Chris Green
chris.green66@yahoo.co.uk
http://chrisgreen.weebly.com/
Service before self
'A Poppy in My Buttonhole' available now SEE:
http://www.rossendalebooks.co.uk/
http://www.lulu.com/content/2791550
My next book will be "The Crcodile Chronicles" and is projected to be launched 2012-ish or a quarter past eight in time for Christmas. |
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taffy
Member
Oswestry Shropshire.
United Kingdom
1686 Posts |
Posted - 29/09/2007 : 18:51:56
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| Hello,Once again you have got straight to the point Chris, This is what caused so many of the problems in WW1, Soldiers in trenches often up to their knees in mud with almost continious shelling both ways simply lost their minds and deserted, or were so traumatised they just could not move, this of course meant court marshal proceedings. During the break out from Normandy bridgehead we experienced almost 24 hours continous shelling all fired overhead from our own batteries which left many soldiers deafoned and dazed, what WW1 soldiers endured day after day, no wonder some could not stand the pressure. Regarding Courts Marshall. i have never had much faith in their findings, especially as i once heard a W.O.1 saying how he had forgotten his bible, and swore every one in on an upturned ready reckoner, it being about the same size. I do have knowledge of court proceedings, having been responsible for seeing that proceedings were correctly followed on a couple occasions. Taffy |
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Tom Mcgreevy
Administrator
Ex-English Army ( Ex-pat Geordie ), Berkshire
United Kingdom
3666 Posts |
Posted - 16/01/2008 : 19:16:14
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After I wrote this, ' Taffy ' suggested I should post this on the SAD site.
So here it is, a terrible reminder of a time in our history, that should never be forgotten.
SHOT AT DAWN BY DEFAULT
WW1
I’m standing here alone
My back against the wall
My body is a trembling
I’m slumped, but once stood tall
My blindfold wet and cold
Sticking to my tears
I search my mind for future life
Beyond my 18 years
My knees transformed to putty
Can’t support my weight
My hands tied by my Country
Which once I thought was great
They said I was a coward
They never asked me why
Court Marshalled here in secret
I know I’m going to die
I can’t see what is happening
My blindfold bound so tight
The silence now is killing me
As Dawn appears from night
Get it over, get it done
Why do they make me wait ?
I really need to urinate
Can’t they see my state ?
A clicking from the Rifle Bolts
A stream runs down my leg
I only have but seconds left
“ Don’t kill me “ now I beg
The fear it makes me Vomit
The birds they start to trill
Then suddenly go quiet
The eerie Dawn stands still
The birds they sense a Death is near
Life ends right here for me
A ‘ Crack ! ‘ from all those rifles
In perfect harmony
Send a message to my loved ones
Don’t listen, what they said
I was young and frightened
I shouldn’t lie here dead
The young and the Brave of World War 1
Tom Mcgreevy
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http://armypicsoftom.weebly.com
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Edited by - Tom Mcgreevy on 22/01/2008 10:18:03 |
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taffy
Member
Oswestry Shropshire.
United Kingdom
1686 Posts |
Posted - 17/01/2008 : 12:10:11
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| Thanks Tom, This part of our history still causes me concern, as does present day trauma difficulties, and of course, Friendly fire situations. taffy |
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Tom Mcgreevy
Administrator
Ex-English Army ( Ex-pat Geordie ), Berkshire
United Kingdom
3666 Posts |
Posted - 17/01/2008 : 13:28:53
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No Problem Taffy. If John Hinkin wants to use this for anything he has my full permission, as can anyone else who reads this
Regards
Tom Mcgreevy |
http://armypicsoftom.weebly.com
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Lisa
Moderator
United Kingdom
155 Posts |
Posted - 17/01/2008 : 20:50:35
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| I really don't know much about SAD but when I here or read about SAD I often think that if the army had a better understanding of mental health care then all those lives would have been saved. Then I realise that not much could have changed, no one is getting SAD anymore but the soldiers of today still seem to lack good mental health care/understanding and their voices aren't being heard. I know of many suicides and people going crazy not always through experience from combat situations but usually the stresses of army/family life. I knew of a guy who had begged for help which got brushed under the carpet as maybe his superiors didn't recognise his desperation, he took his own life. I here of stories like this all the time in the media, it shouldn't come to this, I feel the forces in particular should have specialists mental health teams, and more importantly higher ranks should be trained and educated more in mental health care and then maybe lives can be saved and more soldiers can be helped. |
 ~Lisa~ |
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janhedger
Member
United Kingdom
2647 Posts |
Posted - 17/01/2008 : 22:45:10
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Yes it is time to stand up and say - Mental Health isuues are REAL!
Jan |
'On CalicoWings'
http://www.silverwoodbooks.co.uk
http://www.janscreativewriting.co.uk - updated August 10! Please drop in!
“Do all the good you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, at all the times you can, to all the people you can, as long
as ever you can.”
John Wesley
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Tom Mcgreevy
Administrator
Ex-English Army ( Ex-pat Geordie ), Berkshire
United Kingdom
3666 Posts |
Posted - 22/01/2008 : 10:14:27
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TOO YOUNG
Please Sir, don’t make me do this
He’s my mate, he’s only young Sir
He broke the rules lad
And sentence is passed
Now come on soldier
Move along there
But, me legs won’t move Sir
I’m shaking, look
What are you soldier
Man or mouse?
I’m neither man nor mouse Sir
I am just a boy, a boy
Just like my brother Sir
Then aim true lad
And spare him pain
Soldier, cock that rifle
Or you’ll find yourself
Against that wall
But, but Sir I can’t see
I’m blinded Sir
Enough now soldier
Pull that trigger
And that my boy
IS AN ORDER!
CRACK!
I am sorry, so sorry mate!
Was the last cry he uttered
As he fell by the hand,
Of his own gun
Never to be a man
Jan Hedger
FootNote: please see comments Re; Shot at Dawn by Default – Tom McGreevy
Poem Background info: Words in tribute to those Shot at Dawn
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http://armypicsoftom.weebly.com
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Edited by - Tom Mcgreevy on 22/01/2008 10:19:29 |
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